Remote Control questions for iCon iKeyboard X

[DMorrell]

Hi Jeremy,

Firstly, best wishes - I hope you made it through 2020 in one piece.

I picked up an iKeyboard 8X. It's an 88-key controller with a transport attached to the side, intended to work with DAWs. So I'm trying to make a file for Metro's remote control to take advantage of the transport. I'm gradually figuring it out as I go.

All of the buttons on the transport have LEDs which can be switched on or off via midi note events from metro to the iKeyboard. I'd like to get the iKeyboard transport to reflect the Metro transport window - have the play button lit while it's playing, record button lit while recording, cue button, FF button, etc. Maybe even have the stop button lit when it's idle, because, you know, it'd be sparkly.

First question:
So far the only remote control LED output event I can find is for the Record button. Is it possible to get additional output event types for Play, Cue, FF, and Stop?

Next Remote Control question:
Is it possible to have an output event "pass" through to other entries in the RC window, similar to how the input events can pass through, so they can do more than one action? Say, for example, that I wanted to have 2 different LEDs light up when I hit the record button?

And a third question:
Can you explain, or point me to an explanation of, the "mode" modifiers? I couldn't find anything in the manual.

Thanks,
-Dean

[DMorrell]

As I learn more about remotes, and the Mackie Control standard, I understand now that the transport LED events that I was wondering about in the previous post ("question 1") are not in the standard. So if those events are in Metro, or would be simple to include in there, great; but if not, no biggie at all, as I'd only use them to make the iKeyboard look blingy.

-d

[Jerm]

Thank you for your question. It has been a while so I need to a while to review remote control before I can give you a useful answer.

[Jerm]

Just so I understand correctly, you have all of the buttons working but you want to have the LED's light up for the other transport buttons?

[DMorrell]

The transport buttons are working, and the Record LED is working.

I've used options 6 and 7 to make the play and stop LEDs light up. Then I also use option 7 to change the function of the FF and REW keys: if it's playing, REW key does a return, and FF does fastforward, and if it's stopped, then FF and REW move to next/previous markers. This is all clumsy, though. It only works if I start and stop playback using the remote - any starts or stops that originate from Metro don't update the remote LEDs, or switch the FF/REW logic.

I'm still working out how to use the channel controls - R, S, M, fader and knob.

I can't figure out how to implement the bank select buttons at all yet. I read in the Metro docs that it uses the option1 toggle, but I don't understand how to implement it. Option1 appears to just be a boolean toggle. Does that mean I can only control 16 tracks from the remote?

[Jerm]

The transport buttons are working, and the Record LED is working.
?

That sounds good.

It only works if I start and stop playback using the remote - any starts or stops that originate from Metro don't update the remote LEDs, or switch the FF/REW logic.

That makes sense. I will look into implementing LED support for the other buttons.

I can't figure out how to implement the bank select buttons at all yet. I read in the Metro docs that it uses the option1 toggle, but I don't understand how to implement it. Option1 appears to just be a boolean toggle. Does that mean I can only control 16 tracks from the remote

I am not sure you want to use bank select. What kind of control of > 16 tracks are you looking for?

[DMorrell]

I am not sure you want to use bank select. What kind of control of > 16 tracks are you looking for?

TBH, I'm not sure either. I don't really *need* any kind of remote control - I've always been happy enough with the qwerty and mouse. I did need a new 88 key keyboard, though, and the one I chose to get also happens to have the RC buttons on the left side. So I have it, and my brain says I ought to learn how to set it up, I guess. It's like some kind of technical jigsaw puzzle.

I'm going to do some experimenting tonight with abandoning the channel select buttons, and using ONLY the bank select buttons to simply increment/decrement the current channel by 1. Here's why:
The IKeyboard only has a single set of channel controls, yet it presents to the DAW as though it has a full bank of 8 channel controls. (I'm guessing it does this to adhere to the MC def, for compatibility with many DAWs.) The channel inc/dec buttons (alone, without the bank select) let me select 1-8. iKeyboard internally keeps track of which channel is currently selected. Whenever I select channel 1, it sends C0 to the DAW. When I select channel 2, it sends C#0 to the DAW, regardless of whether I used the increment or the decrement button to get to channel 2. And so on, until channel 8, which sends G0 to DAW. The R, S, M buttons all follow the same theme - they send different notes to the DAW depending on which channel is selected. It's really intended to do absolute channel selection of 1-8 (still ignoring bank selection.) So I set it up using Metro's "select track" for each of the 8 notes, passing it a literal number (1 thru 8 ) for each one, and that works for 8 tracks.

My tunes often have 20 or more tracks.

Given that the iKeyboard only has a single set of channel controls, it makes more sense to me to use relative track selection using "select track (+/-)". The channel select buttons aren't useful for this, since they only tell Metro the absolute position they end up at, not which direction got pressed. But the bank-- button always sends A#1, and the bank++ button always sends B1

The more I think about doing it this way, the more I like it. Makes it easy to hook up the R, S, M, (possibly autRead and autWrite leds) too. And I can use the shift button to jump, say, 5 or 10 tracks at a time if I want to. "Wasting 2 buttons" makes part of my brain sad, but not enough to care about.

Also -- I may not need to use them, but I am curious - how do the "mode" modifiers work? Are they just mutually exclusive toggle switches, like a radio button? Is there anything internal to Metro that sets them (other than the RC event list)? What do "permanent" and "temporary" mean in this context?

Thanks,
-Dean

[Jerm]

Dean,

I have implemented, play, cue, stop and FF led's in 7.4 (not released yet).

As for your other questions, again I will need some time to review and respond.

Thank you for asking as it is important to document this stuff.

[Jerm]

I think if you look at the 'Alpha Track' remote control preset it will give you an idea of how to work with modes. If I recall correctly, mode is set with the SetMode command. Any event that has a mode modifier will only work if the system is in that mode. I believe temporary mode, sets the mode for 2 seconds. This would be used for displaying something for a short period of time.

[DMorrell]

I'm still making slow progress, learning a bunch as I go - thanks for the support, Jeremy.

Transport functions are now using modes.

Now working on the fader and knob for volume, pan and jog.
*edit* ooh, hey, now I see the folly in not adhering to the MC standard: the midi channel that the fader commands get sent on depends on the iKeyboard knowing (internally) which mixer channel it's set to. Okay, so if I want to use the faders, I need to use the "8 channels per bank , and 2 banks" standard, and be fine with 16 channels being controlled remotely. Which I can certainly be, given that this is all just frosting anyway.
*another edit* i CAN still use the non-standard single channel method - just have to use "volume" command in RC window, as opposed to "output volume" or "track volume", and Metro will assign it to the fader of the output of the currently selected track. Very nice.

Can I make a request to put comments and/or whitespace in the RC event list, to make it more human-readable? When I get interrupted and come back to it later, it's unrecognizable for a few minutes.

Also, I notice that the Shift function sets all the LEDs to off, and un-shifting reconnects them. This makes it so I cannot use an option LED to illuminate the shift button. Is this intentional? (I can see why it would be.) Is there a way to add shifted LED events?

Thanks again,
-d

[Jerm]

I'm still making slow progress, learning a bunch as I go - thanks for the support, Jeremy.

I am glad and you are welcome.

Can I make a request to put comments and/or whitespace in the RC event list, to make it more human-readable? When I get interrupted and come back to it later, it's unrecognizable for a few minutes.

I am note sure what you mean by whitespace, perhaps a picture of what you envision would help.

Also, I notice that the Shift function sets all the LEDs to off, and un-shifting reconnects them. This makes it so I cannot use an option LED to illuminate the shift button. Is this intentional? (I can see why it would be.) Is there a way to add shifted LED events?

Again, it has been a while since I have worked on RC so I do not recall. What do you mean by 'sets all the LEDs to off'? That sounds weird.

I have a pending request for Icon to send me a loaner, so if they do I might need your RC preset if you don't mind.

[DMorrell]

I am note sure what you mean by whitespace, perhaps a picture of what you envision would help.

Whitespace as in empty lines - would be totally ignored by the event list parser, but visually, it would help me to be able to separate the events into related groups

What do you mean by 'sets all the LEDs to off'?

When I trigger an event that calls "shift on", all of the LEDs on the iKeyboard go dark, even though the iKeyboard is not internally aware that shift is on. I looked at the MIDI data going out to the iKeyboard and saw that Metro was sending note off commands, with the pitches corresponding to the "Option LED", "Solo LED", "Mute LED", "RecArm LED" and "Rec LED" outgoing events that I'd already implemented. It seems that when Shift turns on, Metro evaluates the outgoing LED events and they always come out false because, now, shift==true, and none of the LED events specify shift as a modifier.

I realize that this logic makes sense - I think this may be the way you intended it to work. So maybe the real issue here is that it's not complete, in that:
- the Option LED events do not let me select "shift" as a modifier (it's missing from the popup menu), and
- (using Rec LED as an example, since I *can* select a shift modifier with this one) if I duplicate the Rec LED events so that I have 4 outgoing events (turn on, turn off, turn on when shifted, and turn off when shifted), only the top pair of events work, and the second pair of events is ignored.

I might need your RC preset if you don't mind.

I'm more than happy to share whatever I come up with - any way I can give some back.

Thanks,
-d

[Jerm]

When I trigger an event that calls "shift on", all of the LEDs on the iKeyboard go dark, even though the iKeyboard is not internally aware that shift is on. I looked at the MIDI data going out to the iKeyboard and saw that Metro was sending note off commands, with the pitches corresponding to the "Option LED", "Solo LED", "Mute LED", "RecArm LED" and "Rec LED" outgoing events that I'd already implemented. It seems that when Shift turns on, Metro evaluates the outgoing LED events and they always come out false because, now, shift==true, and none of the LED events specify shift as a modifier.

This sounds like a bug. Give me some time to look into this. I should be able to test this with the Alphatrack. Perhaps you should also send me your RC Preset for review. Thanks.

[Jerm]

Can you test by duplicating both the on and off of (one of) your LED events and then add the shift key modifier to both?

[DMorrell]

I attached my most recent iKeyboard X RC preset.
If it matters any, I'm using Metro 7.2.4, on a Mac with 10.11.5 (El Capitan).

The iKeyboard doesn't have a Shift button, so I'm using the Flip button (D2) to toggle Shift on and off. Since I can't get Shift to work how I want to, I'm also using Flip to toggle Option 1, but it's disabled in this preset.

I duplicated the Play Automation events and added Shift modifier. That's the bottom 3 lines.

When it's not shifted, the LED flickers dimly. There's a constant stream of note-on and note-off events going from Metro to the iKeyboard.
When it's shifted, the LED flickers brightly. Still a constant stream of note-on and off, but the 'notes' have a longer duration, so it's brighter.

If I disable either pair of LED events, the remaining pair works just fine.

Also, something I found out - the RC Play Automation commands don't change the mixer buttons on the SharpGray color scheme. I switched to Golden color scheme, and they work fine.

Thanks,
-d