Can't properly synchronize MV8800

[Paul]

I'm trying to synchronize my MV8800 with Metro 6.4.3.2. The strange thing is that when I use Setup -> Midi Setup... -> Send Sync To <MV8800>, the MV8800 plays back at double speed. When I don't use this setting (so no sync signal is being sent to the MV8800) it plays back at normal speed.

In both cases, song position pointer doesn't work. The MV8800 just starts playing back where it left off the last time it was stopped.

Is this a bug or am I missing something?

[Jerm]

It sounds like the sync is being delivered twice to the device. What MIDI interface are you using? Do you have 'send song position to synced devices' checked? Did it used to work in previous version of Metro?

[Jerm]

I just verified that sending sync to my Korg Triton Extreme in sequencer mode sends song position and syncs perfectly in Metro 6.4.3.2.

[Paul]

I'm using an Emagic AMT8 midi interface (usb). Send song position to synced devices is checked. I'm not sure if it worked with previous versions because I just bought my MV8800.

Sync speed is ok when I'm using my MacBook with a simple Emu 1x1 midi (usb) interface. The problem seems to only occur on my G5 PowerMac.

On my MacBook song postion pointer doesn't work either. Maybe it's a setting on the MV8800 then, although it's not mentioned in the manual and I can't find it anywhere on the screens. I'll try to find some information about this on the internet.

[Paul]

Oh, I forgot to mention. Sync works ok when using Logic Pro Studio. Same setup on my G5.

[Paul]

Song position pointer is also working with Logic.

[Jerm]

It may be helpful to see the output of MIDI Monitor. If you spy on destinations and look at real time messages, there should be 24 Timing Clock (0xF8) MIDI messages per quarter note. It would also be useful to see if Metro is sending a Song Position Pointer (SPP) message. That would be an 0xf2.

[Paul]

Jerm,

what is Midi Monitor? I can only find one reference of it in the manual and it says there that it's not available under OSX.

[Jerm]

It's a free utility for Mac OS X found here.

[Paul]

Okay, I don't see any song position pointer message with Midi Monitor when starting and stopping Metro (1 bar). I must say though, that it is just called 'song position pointer' in the 'message' column. It is not called 0xf2. Maybe that's a setting somewhere in Midi Monitor, I don't know.

When using Logic, I do see the SPP message in Midi Monitor.

The 'Clock' message is shown in both cases. Is that the same as 24 Timing clock (0xF8)? It is just called that, 'Clock'.

[Jerm]

If you start the song from the beginning then no Song Position Pointer is needed. From the MIDI specification:

A MIDI Start always begins playback at MIDI Beat 0 (ie, the very beginning of the song). So, when a slave device receives a MIDI Start, it automatically resets its "Song Position" to 0. If the device needs to start playback at some other point (either set by a previous Song Position Pointer message, or manually by the musician), then MIDI Continue is used instead of MIDI Start.

So if you see a start message then no Song pointer (should) be needed.

Yes Song Position Pointer is 0xF2 but MIDI monitor just calls it by name and Clock is 0xF8.

Metro's MIDI output is exactly what it should be. The Song Position Pointer is only output when not starting from the beginning and it is followed by a continue message otherwise a start message is sent. In either case clocks are sent out 24 per quarter note.

It is possible that the Roland MV implementation has a bug in it that requires a song pointer position from the beginning of the song. If this were the case then playing back from the middle would work. Is that what you are seeing?

[Paul]

Jerm, when I start playback from the middle, I also don't see a SPP message.

I have tested it with my MO8 and its sequencer too plays back at double speed. As I said, Logic doesn't have these problems. When I start in the middle of a song, the MV8800 plays back from the same point. It really has something to do with Metro on the G5 I think. With Metro running on my MacBook the problems don't occur.

Have you tested it on a G4/5 or on an Intel machine?

[Jerm]

I will try on a G4 machine....

[Jerm]

Ok I tried it on a new setup on a G4 computer. I ran into a few things that you should be aware of. First off and most important, Metro is the master so the tempo will dictate the speed of the external devices. Changing tempo should absolutely change the tempo on externally synced devices. This might be the entire problem.

Also when conducting experiments it is best to turn MIDI thru off.

For me, I was testing with a Korg Triton and in its case it has a feature 'Receive ext. realtime commands' that was unchecked. This caused it to ignore song position pointer, start and stop. Obviously that is not what you are seeing but I am just mentioning this because a lot of these devices have options that can significantly impact syncing of devices.

If you are still having problem syncing I would suggest the following test. Open MIDI monitor and select spy on destinations. Deselect 'active sensing'. Click clear to clear any previous MIDI commands. In Metro deselect the cue loop button on the transport. Select the first beat of the first measure by clicking in the tick mark below the (white on black) number 1. Click the cue button. Metro should start and then stop after the first beat. Now in MIDI monitor there should be a start command followed by a series of clock commands followed by a stop command. Count the number of clock commands. There should be exactly 25. If not then there is a problem with Metro, otherwise it is likely something else, perhaps something to do with your MIDI interface.

[Jerm]

Jerm, when I start playback from the middle, I also don't see a SPP message.

Sorry, I misread this the first time.

What are your MIDI setup settings? When I do this I do see an SPP message with both the M-Audio Axiom connected through to a Triton and a MOTU Midi express connected through to various devices.

Of course, if the SPP message does not get sent then there is no way the device can sync.

It is possible that Logic does something to configure your MIDI interface. Please try swapping the MIDI interface to narrow down the problem.