Tracks Window\Graphic Editor requests

[Krushzone]

Some Requested Metro features:

1) Tracks Window\Graphic Editor - Return view.
- Desire a feature whereby double-clicking on the Transport Window's Return button (<<) would automatically return the Tracks Window & Graphic Editor views to the beginning of the song (zero). Conversely, double-clicking on the Transport Window's Fast Forward button (>>) would automatically move the Tracks Window & Graphic Editor views to display the end of the song.

2) Tracks Window\Graphic Editor - Center Zoom around cursor point.
- Desire an optional feature whereby the Magnify-Plus and Magnify-Minus would zoom AROUND the chosen point. In other words, the magnification in the track would remain centered, expanding\contracting on both sides of the cursor (counter location) point and would not become left-justified.

Perhaps a more elaborate feature could be implemented for a “region zoom,” as follows:
- Pressing the “left arrow key” would cause the zoomed region’s START-point to become LEFT-justified;
- Pressing the “down arrow key” would cause the zoomed region’s MID-point to become CENTERED-justified;
- Pressing the “right arrow key” would cause the zoomed region’s END-point to become RIGHT-justified;
- Pressing the “up arrow” would scale the zoom so that the entire selected region would automatically “fit” the window extents.

3) Tracks Window - Offer copy preference for option-drag.
For the "option-drag to copy clips" feature, it may be helpful to include a setting option to;
"paste\mix" (combine with existing clips),
"paste\slide" (insert and move over existing clips), or
"paste\replace" (overwrite existing clips).
Pasting would adhere to the Tracks Window current snap-to-grid setting. This would be helpful to quickly build tracks in the Tracks Window. - UPDATED REQUEST 3-

Please let me know if I can provide any further explanation.

PK

[Jerm]

Thank you for your clearly thought out and organized suggestions. We will be seriously considering these and will fully respond within the next few days.

[Krushzone]

Jerm,

Thanks for the prompt reply.
Please note: I have updated\corrected prior request 3 (above).
I apologize for the prior error.

I also forgot to include this additional Tracks Window request:
4) Tracks Window - SNAP setting
It would be helpful if the SNAP setting in the TRACKS Window would remember it's last setting per saved song (file).

Thank you.
PK

[Jerm]

1) Tracks Window\Graphic Editor - Return view.
- Desire a feature whereby double-clicking on the Transport Window's Return button (<<) would automatically return the Tracks Window & Graphic Editor views to the beginning of the song (zero).

Do you realize that this is exactly what the return key does?

Conversely, double-clicking on the Transport Window's Fast Forward button (>>) would automatically move the Tracks Window & Graphic Editor views to display the end of the song.

Both of these potential features might cause confusion during playback since the first click does something that poentially counteracts what the second click would do.

2) Tracks Window\Graphic Editor - Center Zoom around cursor point.
- Desire an optional feature whereby the Magnify-Plus and Magnify-Minus would zoom AROUND the chosen point. In other words, the magnification in the track would remain centered, expanding\contracting on both sides of the cursor (counter location) point and would not become left-justified.

I am not sure I fully understand this one. This sounds very close to exactly what Metro currently does. It zooms around the current selection so that the selection start point is visible. If the selection point is not visible after the zoom Metro will bring it into view by, as you mention, left justifying it. Is your suggestion to change the last step so that Metro center justifies the selection start point?

Perhaps a more elaborate feature could be implemented for a “region zoom,” as follows:
- Pressing the “left arrow key” would cause ....

I am missing this suggestion as well. Are you suggesting doing away with what the current arrow keys do?

3) Tracks Window - Offer copy preference for option-drag.
For the "option-drag to copy clips" feature, it may be helpful to include a setting option to;
"paste\mix" (combine with existing clips),
"paste\slide" (insert and move over existing clips), or
"paste\replace" (overwrite existing clips).

Where do you envision seeing this option? Currently cmd-M will mix the audio in the track with the audio in the clipboard. Paste/Replace is what is going on now, so the only thing missing is paste\slide (i.e. ripple editing), which we have been thinking about implementing as a menu item.

4) Tracks Window - SNAP setting
It would be helpful if the SNAP setting in the TRACKS Window would remember it's last setting per saved song (file).

You are aware that this is a global setting, saved with preferences. Right?

[Industro]

Here's my "2 cents" on these potential features...

1) Tracks Window\Graphic Editor - Return view.
- Desire a feature whereby double-clicking on the Transport Window's Return button (<<) would automatically return the Tracks Window & Graphic Editor views to the beginning of the song (zero).

Do you realize that this is exactly what the return key does?

When playback is stopped, have the (<<) button bring the "screen" to "0" with the cursor, just like the "Return" key does.

During playback, keep functionality the same as it currently is, only add this:

Only if an audio (or MIDI) region is selected/highlighted, have the (<<) button bring the playhead to the beginning of the selected region and continue playback from there, or implement this functionality with a "Shift-click" or similar keystroke-click combination?

Conversely, double-clicking on the Transport Window's Fast Forward button (>>) would automatically move the Tracks Window & Graphic Editor views to display the end of the song.

Both of these potential features might cause confusion during playback since the first click does something that poentially counteracts what the second click would do.

How about a "Shift-click" or alternative keystoke-click combination for these?

2) Tracks Window\Graphic Editor - Center Zoom around cursor point.
- Desire an optional feature whereby the Magnify-Plus and Magnify-Minus would zoom AROUND the chosen point. In other words, the magnification in the track would remain centered, expanding\contracting on both sides of the cursor (counter location) point and would not become left-justified.

I am not sure I fully understand this one. This sounds very close to exactly what Metro currently does. It zooms around the current selection so that the selection start point is visible. If the selection point is not visible after the zoom Metro will bring it into view by, as you mention, left justifying it. Is your suggestion to change the last step so that Metro center justifies the selection start point?

Get rid of "left-justify" when ONLY THE CURSOR (PLAYBACK HEAD) is being zoomed, not an audio "selection." Keep the cursor/playback-head in the same place on the screen and zoom in/out to that point.

For an audio "SELECTION", keep the "start" (left side) of the audio selection in the same place on the screen, and zoom in/out based on that refernce point. This way, cursors and selected audio won't "jump" all over the screen when zooming.

Perhaps a more elaborate feature could be implemented for a “region zoom,” as follows:
- Pressing the “left arrow key” would cause ....

I am missing this suggestion as well. Are you suggesting doing away with what the current arrow keys do?

No, don't do away with current arrow key functionality. Make it a keystoke combination (like Command - "arrow up" or Option - "arrow up") to achieve this functionality.

3) Tracks Window - Offer copy preference for option-drag.
For the "option-drag to copy clips" feature, it may be helpful to include a setting option to;
"paste\mix" (combine with existing clips),
"paste\slide" (insert and move over existing clips), or
"paste\replace" (overwrite existing clips).

Where do you envision seeing this option? Currently cmd-M will mix the audio in the track with the audio in the clipboard. Paste/Replace is what is going on now, so the only thing missing is paste\slide (i.e. ripple editing), which we have been thinking about implementing as a menu item.

Paste/slide would be handy, but take this a step further...

Make all audio regions behave the same way they do in Garageband (and iMovie) - By hovering your cursor over the left or right "boundary-edge" of the audio region, the audio can be "expanded" or "shortened" to encompass more (or less) of the original audio recording. This way, after cutting/editing audio regions, we can expand the clip to include more of the original sample without re-importing the original audio again. Then, the "Paste/slide" feature can be turned on/turned off either by a toggle in the Graphic Editor, or by holding down a second modifyer key when Option-dragging an audio region (like Cmd-Option-Drag will "Copy and Paste/Slide").

However, there may need to be some minor graphic changes to illustrate this functionality (like curved edges on audio regions that aren't fully expanded vs. straight edges on audio regions that are fully expansed to their original recorded sample, and a "resize" mouse cursor while hovering over the edge of an audio region). I think it'll all be well-worth it though.

4) Tracks Window - SNAP setting
It would be helpful if the SNAP setting in the TRACKS Window would remember it's last setting per saved song (file).

You are aware that this is a global setting, saved with preferences. Right?

Hmmm... My "Snap to Bar" (or any other quantized value) settings in the Tracks window are NOT remembered after I shut down Metro, even if I save the document prior to exiting.

[Jerm]

Get rid of "left-justify" when ONLY THE CURSOR (PLAYBACK HEAD) is being zoomed, not an audio "selection." Keep the cursor/playback-head in the same place on the screen and zoom in/out to that point..

I am not sure what this means. I think you are referring to the insert cursor as the "playback head" and a selection as an "audio selection" but I do not understand. If there is a selection it is possible to keep the start (or end point) at the same place on the screen but not both.

For an audio "SELECTION", keep the "start" (left side) of the audio selection in the same place on the screen, and zoom in/out based on that refernce point. This way, cursors and selected audio won't "jump" all over the screen when zooming.

Yes.

No, don't do away with current arrow key functionality. Make it a keystoke combination (like Command - "arrow up" or Option - "arrow up") to achieve this functionality.

This is possible however those keystrokes are also used.

This way, after cutting/editing audio regions, we can expand the clip to include more of the original sample without re-importing the original audio again.

You should never need to re-import the original. If you have 'Show audio regions' on in the switches menu, there will be 2 handles on each audio region within the graphic editor, which can be dragged to expand the window into the audio file.

Perhaps many users are using the tracks window when the graphic editor is more suited to the task you are trying to accomplish. It is possible to display many tracks in the graphic editor and edit them there.

Then, the "Paste/slide" feature can be turned on/turned off either by a toggle in the Graphic Editor, or by holding down a second modifyer key when Option-dragging an audio region (like Cmd-Option-Drag will "Copy and Paste/Slide").

Yes, something like this would be the way I would do it.

My "Snap to Bar" (or any other quantized value) settings in the Tracks window are NOT remembered after I shut down Metro, even if I save the document prior to exiting.

Did you go to the Metro menu, select preferences and then save?

[Jerm]

For an audio "SELECTION", keep the "start" (left side) of the audio selection in the same place on the screen, and zoom in/out based on that refernce point. This way, cursors and selected audio won't "jump" all over the screen when zooming..

I looked into this further and it will not work without substantial changes in both the code and the user experience because Metro stores the start of the graphic editor as a measure (on a bar boundary) unless you are zoomed in (past the MIDI level) to the sample level of an audio track.

[Industro]

I am not sure what this means. I think you are referring to the insert cursor as the "playback head" and a selection as an "audio selection" but I do not understand. If there is a selection it is possible to keep the start (or end point) at the same place on the screen but not both.

Yes, keep the "insert cursor" in the same location on the screen when zooming in/out. For an "audio selection", do exactly the same thing with the left-most edge of the audio selection (use the left edge of the highlighted selection as the zoom refence point, just like the "insert cursor") without left-justifying the whole selection on the screen.

No, don't do away with current arrow key functionality. Make it a keystoke combination (like Command - "arrow up" or Option - "arrow up") to achieve this functionality.

This is possible however those keystrokes are also used.

Use whatever keystrokes are available and intuative. Just let us know what you end up implementing.

You should never need to re-import the original. If you have 'Show audio regions' on in the switches menu, there will be 2 handles on each audio region within the graphic editor, which can be dragged to expand the window into the audio file.

Call me a moron, but I've been staring at those little red square handels for over a year and I never knew they were adjustable! Perhaps changing the mouse's cursor to a "<-||->" when hovering over those handels would make it more obvious for numb-skulls like me.

My "Snap to Bar" (or any other quantized value) settings in the Tracks window are NOT remembered after I shut down Metro, even if I save the document prior to exiting.

Did you go to the Metro menu, select preferences and then save?

I see nothing to do with "Remember Quantized Note Value" in the Preferences pane. Am I missing it????

For an audio "SELECTION", keep the "start" (left side) of the audio selection in the same place on the screen, and zoom in/out based on that refernce point. This way, cursors and selected audio won't "jump" all over the screen when zooming...

I looked into this further and it will not work without substantial changes in both the code and the user experience because Metro stores the start of the graphic editor as a measure (on a bar boundary) unless you are zoomed in (past the MIDI level) to the sample level of an audio track.

Oh, I see what you're talking about. OK then, well, what about implementing this concept only in circumstances where you are zoomed in past the MIDI level? So, once you're at the sample level, the selection doesn't continue to "jump around the screen" during a zoom, but instead, the left boundary of the selected audio becomes the zoom refence point.


P.S. - Jerm, just let me know when you're sick of hearing my ideas and I'll shut up. I design software GUIs for my day job, so I'm just hyper-critical of this stuff.

[Jerm]

... just let me know when you're sick of hearing my ideas and I'll shut up. I design software GUIs for my day job, so I'm just hyper-critical of this stuff.

You are not going to hear that from me. I appreciate any good serious feedback especially when the ideas are thought through, which yours are. Thank you.

[Krushzone]

Hi Jerm,

In reply to your questions from Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:24 am...

To clearify: Within the scope of this thread, I am referring only to functions performed while playback is STOPPED.
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Do you realize that this is exactly what the return key does?

I do realize that the Return button returns the "Counter" to zero, but it has not been my experience that the Return button automatically returns the "Display" to zero, and that's OK, as I would not want the display to shift back to zero with just a single-click anyway.
However, I often wish to SIMULTANEOUSLY return both the "Counter" AND the "Display" to zero (not having the intention to immediately begin playback), and for that purpose, a double-click of the Return button would conveniently achieve this. Think of the double-click as the instruction, "Hey Metro, rewind everything back to the very beginning."
-----

Is your suggestion to change the last step so that Metro center justifies the selection start point?

Yes, please provide an option to center justify the zoom selection start point.
-----

Are you suggesting doing away with what the current arrow keys do?

Not necessarily. Cmd-arrows, menu buttons, or a mouse right-click function would be fine. I just feel it would be useful to be able to toggle the "region zoom" justification and also "auto-fit" the region to the screen extents.
-----

Currently cmd-M will mix the audio in the track with the audio in the clipboard.

I can't find specifics about this. How is the cmd-M keystroke combination integrated with the option-drag copy function?
-----

You are aware that this is a global setting, saved with preferences. Right?

Nope. I cannot find such a preference or global setting.
-----

Perhaps many users are using the tracks window when the graphic editor is more suited to the task you are trying to accomplish.

My personal perspective: I find the Graphic Editor suitable for "graphic editing" tasks (ie: fine tuning individual audio clips, etc.).
However, the Tracks Window provides me with the cohesive overview of the song that I prefer while sequencing (ie: arranging, grouping, & duplicating tracks, regions, & measures, etc.).

Thank You.
PK

[Jerm]

I do realize that the Return button returns the "Counter" to zero, but it has not been my experience that the Return button automatically returns the "Display" to zero,....

Not the return button, the return key on the macintosh keyboard returns both the transport, and the front window, either the graphic editor or the tracks window to the beginning of the song.

[Jerm]

Nope. I cannot find such a preference or global setting.

The setting is set in the tracks window pull down menu and is saved when preferences are saved. It is then loaded when Metro is loaded. So to use it you must configure the setting in the tracks window. Go to the preferences dialog and click save. The same goes for many other settings including program names.

[Krushzone]

Ah HA! Thanks for all the info!

[Industro]

Jerm,

I just wanted to take a second to say "thank you" for taking the time to implement some of our latest feature requests into the latest version of Metro.

Your company's support, service, and concept-to-execution time is top notch, which is the main reason I remain loyal to your products. The fact your ongoing updates and enhancements remain free to registered users is a testimony to Sagan Tech's caliber of customer service.

Thanks for taking the road less traveled and providing excellent support to your customers. I'll stick around as long as you do!

-Dan-

[Jerm]

Thanks for taking the road less traveled and providing excellent support to your customers. I'll stick around as long as you do!

Dan,

These comments make all the development worthwhile and enriching because, we are not getting rich in any other way on our products.

Thank you!