Export: Multi-platform, multi-program compatible tracks

[Industro]

I've been a Metro fan and exclusive user since back in the Cakewalk days. Glad to see the support for this great product continues!

Here is a feature that I have needed from day one (please excuse me if this has already been discussed, I am new to the forums...

-------> Export: Cross-Program/Platform Compatible Multitrack Bundle

We need a feature that provides an easy solution that allows us to Export all separate audio tracks in such a way that they can be imported into other sequencing programs on other platforms.

Now, before you say "impossible," here is a simple approach...

I know that NONE of the Metro-specific features will translate to other programs; all I'm asking for is that all AUDIO (and MIDI) tracks are rendered (flattened) individually at their hottest "non-peaking/clipping" levels into standard AIF (or WAV) and MIDI files that can all be imported into other commonly used programs for further editing and mixing.

For instance, my 3-minute 24-track song could be instantly exported into 24 3-min AIF files (or WAV) and MIDI files each retaining the name I defined in the track listing (example: KickDrum.aif, Snare.aif, BassGuitar.aif, etc.)

I frequently collaborate with other engineers and every time I want to send them a multi-track song, I have to adjust the level and export each track separately, and then they have to import each track, one at a time. (It would also be nice if an "identifying" file could instruct the new software how to arrange the non-destructive audio segments so thay match the arrangement in Metro, but that might be asking for too much.)

There has got to be a method that would enable Metro to export a "Cross-Program" bundle consisting of nothing but rendered audio/midi tracks that can be imported into other multi-track sequencers. I am told that other programs do this, so I HOPE it can be done.

Any advancement in this direction would help to open Metro up to a wider market since it would allow for more compatibility.

Any chance on getting this powerful feature added???

[Jerm]

I think this is a great idea. I have a few questions/ideas as to how this would be implemented.

Is .AIF output ok or is .wav mandatory?

I could see this working as you specify an output folder and all of the soft-synths are rendered. Audio with automation is rendered and then all audio tracks are output to the folder as .aif files. MIDI data will be written to the folder as a standard type II MIDI file.

It would be nice to have import x-platform and export x-platform commands.

[Industro]

Great!!! Glad to see that you are receptive to this feature! I know that many pros would be more willing to accept Metro into the Pro Audio "Big Leagues" if this cross-program export feature was implemented.

AIF output is fine (although many PC sequencers use WAV as their native audio format). Of course, PC users could always convert all the AIFs to WAVs (but again, we're striving for maximum compatibility). Is there a way to include a "checkbox-type" option in an Export dialog box so that a Metro user could opt to convert the AIFs to WAVs upon export? Perhaps using QuickTime? (I know it would add an extra obstacle, but if it's possible, it might be worth it). Just food for thought...

Yes, I also envision this export feature as you described...

The Metro user would specify (or create) an "output folder." Then, all audio tracks are exported individually (at their highest level without clipping) as separate AIF (or WAV) files into the folder. Yes, all Soft Synths, fader/panning automation would be rendered, and all MIDI would export as standard MIDI files. The trick is having all the exported AIF (and MIDI) files retain their track names.

Let me know if I can offer any additional suggestions or feedback that could be helpful for drafting a feature concept. I can also speak with my industry counterparts and get their input as well.

I'm so happy to see continued support and development for Metro. I have been a Metro "cheerleader" since I began my career in Pro Audio. While everyone else was sworn into Pro Tools, Logic, or Sonar, I've been a persistent Metro fan. I've recorded entire albums and produced national recording artists using Metro as my core sequencer.

Please keep me in the loop with your ideas and efforts relating to this feature.

Thanks Jerm, we all appreciate your work!

[Jerm]

Then, all audio tracks are exported individually (at their highest level without clipping) as separate AIF (or WAV) files into the folder.

This is the only part I am not sure I agree with. By normalizing all the audio you are effectively destroying the mix. Why would you want this? You can always do this manually if you really do want it.

[Industro]

I see what you're saying.

Perhaps we could include this as another "checkbox" option.

Here is a scenario/reason why this would be useful...

I record 24 tracks of audio which I mix according to my liking. Then I can export the tracks individually (for a different multi-platform program) and send the exported tracks to my Producer who uses Sonar on a PC.

If the exported (rendered) AIF files are at their "pre-mixed" volume levels, this is helpful for others who want to import the SAME MIX. But, if the producer wants to add additional audio/MIDI tracks and re-mix the song entirely different, he is restricted to use the "un-normalized" AIF files.

(Example, if a synth AIF track is rendered at 50% volume and then imported, the Producer cannot easily increase the level to 0db (U) since his "mixer fader" will already be at 100%, unless he destructively scales the audio.)

So, by offering an option to normalize each audio track upon export, this essentially destroys the mix, but it provides increased flexibility for others to create their own mixes using the hottest non-clipping audio.

This feature would be GREAT for "re-mix" artists and DJs, or those who provide mixing & mastering services exclusively.

Basically, upon "Export for Cross-Program Compatibility," a dialog box could provide the following user selectable options:

- Normalize Audio Tracks on Export, or
- Preserve Audio levels on Export

- Export Audio Tracks as rendered AIF files, or
- Export Audio Tracks as rendered WAV files (if possible)

Sure, the recipient (Producer) could normalize each audio track himself, but again, we're going for convenience. Offering both options provides means for both scenarios.

What do you think?

[Jerm]

What do you think?

I think what you say makes good sense (unfortunately also more work).

[Krushzone]

Hello,

This is fantastic that Cross-Program Compatibility is being tossed around for Metro!

If Metro could just export to the "Open Media Framework Interchange" (OMFI) format, I think the universe may be in near harmony (not sure about the normalization issue).

SOME INFO:
The OMFI format is designed for exchange of project files between users of different programs and platforms. The OMFI is a common interchange framework developed in response to an industry led standardization effort (including Avid -- a major digital video hardware/applications vendor). The primary concern of the OMFI format is with the temporal representation of media (such as video and audio), and a track model is used.

The OMFI file format incorporates:

A header -- include indices for objects contained in file.
Object dictionary -- to enhance the OMFI class hierarchy in an application.
Object data
Track data

More Info on OMFI may be found here:
http://www.omfi.org/

Regarding Sonar:
SONAR 4 Producer Edition supports Open Media Framework Interchange for exchange of project files with users of other programs and platforms.
_ Sonar supports OMFI & Broadcast Wave import/export for cross platform collaboration with Digital Performer, Logic, Nuendo, and Pro Tools studios.
_ Sonar Import formats: AIF, ASF, AU, AVI (with stereo or 5.1 audio), Broadcast Wave, MIDI, MP2, MP3, MPEG, MPG, OMFI, QuickTime, SND, WAV, Windows Media Audio 9 (WMA), WMA9 Pro 5.1, WMA9 lossless, Windows Media Video, proprietary Cakewalk formats (.bun, .cwb, .cwp, .wrk)
http://www.cakewalk.com/products/sonar/features.asp

I hope this info helps the cause.

--------------------
PK
Krushzone Productions
“The Rhythm is the Power”

[Jerm]

More Info on OMFI may be found here:
http://www.omfi.org/

I am very interested in OMFI but this web site offers no info on OMFI that I can find

[Industro]

If Metro could just export to the "Open Media Framework Interchange" (OMFI) format, I think the universe may be in near harmony

THANK YOU for your input about OMFI!!!! I did not know that OMFI stanards were solidified, but this sounds like the perfect solution to the issues we have been discussing!

Jerm, is this possible? It seems like this "wheel" has already been invented... Metro would just need to be adapted to incorporate OMFI standards. This provides even more flexibility/compatibility than the "Export" method we were previously discussing, as song files could retain their editable characteristics and audio would not need to be "rendered" for export.

This is definitly worth looking into... if I can help out in any way (research or whatever), please let me know!!! Adopting this powerful standard would help Metro to become more accepted (and used) within the industry for pro recording and production.

So what's next? Is there an OMFI Developer's Toolkit available? What can we do to move this idea forward? Sounds like an upgrade made in heaven!

[Krushzone]

Hi,

Ahhh...the ever changing world of music and computers...
Sorry about the bad link...I should have looked this stuff up again before my last post, but ...
It seems that OMFI has matured into AAF (the Advanced Authoring Format). AAF "builds substantially upon the original capabilities of OMFI, but now uses the object model from OMFI and combines it with Microsoft's Structured Storage container format rather than the Apple Bento format used in OMFI." Hmmm.

It seems like it's always work in progress...and obviously very important.

AAF Developer Kit Info:
http://www.aafassociation.org/html/faq. ... lopmentKit

Other Related links...

http://bg.mixonline.com/ar/audio_fileformat_futures/

http://www.aafassociation.org/html/faq.html

http://www.aes.org

Good luck, Jerm! ...We're all counting on you!

----------------------
PK
Krushzone Productions
"The Rhythm is the Power."

[Scoot]

Taken from "File-Format Futures" link...........

Growing out of a multimedia task force originally put together by Microsoft, the Advanced Authoring Format (AAF) is a major undertaking to develop a comprehensive interchange format for every type of digital media data, including audio, video, text, graphics and various other types of media objects.

hhhmmm why not go the whole hogg and call it Quicktime?

[Industro]

I hate Microsoft as much as the next Mac guy. But the fact is, we have no choice sometimes but to exchance "work-in-progress" files with others in the PC platform and using different authoring software. If I understand this correctly, the value of AAF is for the interchange of editable "project files" encapsulating multi-track versions of "un-rendered" tracks (video, audio, whatever).

But, to be able to send a song-in-progress to someone and have them open it up and continue to edit/arrange/mix where the first person left off, THAT is quite a handy and powerful feature.

If you can pull it off Jerm, we would all be eternaly grateful!

[Industro]

Hi Jerm,

Any progress or developments with the AAF adoption for Metro? Any luck with the Developers Toolkit?

You bet I'll be buying Metro's upgrade when that release comes out!

I hope you're still looking into this... this would indeed open up Metro to a plethora or new users since cross-platform/program issues would be a thing of the past.

Keep us posted! (Sorry if I sound anxious)

[Jerm]

Industro,

To tell you the truth I did take a look at the AAF spec and I have the documentation. This spec looks very overly complicated with many issues that would need to be resolved. However without a program that reads and writes these files in a valid format it would be working in the dark and I am not going to buy pro-tools or the equivalent just to test this feature.

I am now leaning back toward the original idea, which would be to output .aif or .wav files with MIDI into a directory and have a mechanism to load a section by scanning this directory.