Using Metro 6.2 & Phatmatik Pro 1.1

[rlwilliams]

Jeremy,

I need some help with using Phatmatik Pro with Metro 6.2. It's not working like the manual says it should.

My system looks like this:
OS 9.1
Powermac 9600 upgraded to a G4
800 mhz
1.5 GB ram

These are the steps I'm taking:

1. Open up Metro 6.2
2. I've already got an aux bus set up for VSTis, so I drag the Phatmatik Pro to the synth/effects window. It shows up in the graphic editor as an output.
3. First thing I need to do is load a loop, so I open Phatmatik Pro's file browser using the file button in the toolbar. The file button is supposed to toggle the file browser open.
4. Phatmatik Pro's custom file browser opens and I can see the loops that are loadable.
5. I navigate to a folder with a loop to work with.
6. I enable loop preview by un-muting the speaker button in the file browser's toolbar.
7. I find a loop that I want to load into Phatmatik, and double click on its name in the lower file pane to load it into the slice editor.
8. Now here's where everything gets BUGGY. In order to close the file browser, I'm supposed to click on the file icon in the toolbar again. I do this, but the window does not close. The icon only changes colors.
9. I can slice the loop by adjusting the sensitivity slider and pressing the "do slice" button. I then see the slices.
10. The directions say if you have a midi keyboard connected to your DAW, you can trigger the slices using your keyboard. It says to setup your keyboard/host to deliver midi on track 1 to Phatmatik Pro and check it out. I think I did that right by choosing the midi track number in the transport bar?, because I can hear the sounds using the keyboard.
10. I can preview individual slices directly from Phatmatik Pro's MUI by holding down the [Shift] key and clicking on a slice in the waveform display.
11. Here's another BUG it seems. The directions say that I should be able to preview the loop at the host's tempo by pressing the 'play preview' button in the Phatmatik Pro's toolbar. I press the play button, and NOTHING happens. The manual says that the 'Play Preview' works in two modes: a. when the host's transport is stopped, play preview plays the current channel's loop at the host's tempo. (It plays nothing) b. When the host's transport is engaged (i.e. when the song is playing) play preview will play back the loop at the host's tempo - AND- phase locked to the host's bar/beat position. (Can't say, because I'm not hearing anything)
12. I've tried to recreate the original loop in an arrangement in Metro. I've tried it both ways: a. Clicking on the midi export button and importing into Metro works. b. The manual says the easy way is to press the [Option] key, click on the midi export button, and drag the midi to the arrange page. Whenever I do this, Metro creates a new section, so it's not that easy to do, is it?
13. The loop can be manipulated just like midi whenever it is in the arrangement in Metro.

If anyone else is using Phatmatik Pro, and experiencing the same problems, please respond. Something is not working right with these applications. Can you help me figure this out?

Sincerely,

Ronnie

[rlwilliams]

Jeremy,

Is there an upgrade to Phatmatik Pro 1.2? If so, could this be causing the problems that I'm having with these two programs?

Ronnie

[Jerm]

Ronnie wrote "8. Now here's where everything gets BUGGY. In order to close the file browser, I'm supposed to click on the file icon in the toolbar again. I do this, but the window does not close. The icon only changes colors."

This seems pretty minor. If you cannot close the file browser, no big deal.

Ronnie wrote "I think I did that right by choosing the midi track number in the transport bar?, because I can hear the sounds using the keyboard."

The easy way is to turn on Automatic MIDI thru and simply record-enable the track in question. It is the MIDI channel (and not the MIDI track) that is important here. If you can hear the sounds, it is working though.

Ronnie wrote " Whenever I do this, Metro creates a new section, so it's not that easy to do, is it?"

If you install PH-Pro on an aux buss then you should be able to easily assign PPRo-1 to the track and press play to play all the slices even if they are in a different section.

Ronnie wrote "Can you help me figure this out?"
I am not sure what the problem is. It seems like, from what you say, that it is pretty much working. If you have a specific problem please point me to what is your major concern here.

Is it that playback does not appear to work in Phat-Matik Pro? I can look into this further but I need some direction.

Thanks,
Jeremy

[rlwilliams]

Jeremy,

Thanks for your reply. I've been trying the Phatmatik Pro out to see if I can be a little more specific. I also sent the same information above to Art at Bitshift Audio to see what he would have to say.

Am I right or wrong in using Phatmatik Pro on an Aux Buss? or should I now be able to select the Phatmatik Pro from the "Synths" on the bar in the Graphic Editor?

I tried both ways, aux buss, and selecting from the bar. Using both methods I record enabled track 1 in the Tracks display, and the Output says Phatmatik Pro.

I opened the "Effect/Synths" window and clicked on "Edit" to open the Phatmatik Pro interface.

I went through the same steps as before to hear the loop to be used. Again the browser doesn't shrink, but the closing of the Phatmatik Pro browser is not such a big deal as you say, it just makes me wonder why it doesn't work like it says it should. I can live with it. Art's response was "I suspect in this case that Metro is not responding correctly to pHATmatik PRO's request to shrink its window, but I can't be sure."

I chose a loop to be loaded into Phatmatik Pro, double clicked twice, and it was loaded into the Phatmatik Pro window. I adjusted the sensitivity to create slices.

I pushed the play preview button, and nothing will play. Art responded to this by saying, "Not sure if Metro sends the necessary sync information to VSTs, and I have no way of testing it here."

I think this is where I need the help to figure out why Phatmatik Pro is not "playing" nicely with Metro.

I know the slices are being recognized in some way because, as I said before, I can preview individual slices directly from Phatmatik Pro's MUI by holding down the [Shift] key and clicking on a slice in the waveform display.

I can also export the midi information and play the slices after importing them into Metro. I can then hear the slices being played, but I want to be able to hear them by pressing the "play preview" button, before having to go through exporting.

When I tested Phatmatik Pro using the "Synth" bar in the Graphic Editor method, the meter on the Master worked, but the channel in the Instruments that says Phatmatik Pro didn't show any audio activity. When I used the Aux Buss, the output was shown on the Aux Buss, which could then be adjusted in the mixer/instruments screen.

I hope you're understanding my post, please let me clarify if needed.

Thanks for your time, and your continued help in the improvement of Metro.

Sincerely,

Ronnie

[Scoot]

Hi Ronnie.
(I've been up all night and haven't slept for 30 hours so bare with me if I'm way off here....and no it wasn't phat keeping me from sleeping).


I just downloaded the plugin and started having a play.
Jaguar 10.2.6 with metro 6.201 and phat pro whatever the demo is.

I just quickly made half a dozen little samples from songs - a little vocal, a drum and a guitar lead etc.

I clicked on the button at the top left of the plugin and got a sample installed. Is this where you were talking about having to close a window?
Maybe? Everything here works ok for me.

With the sample, I could get it playing with metro's transport or with some other setting with the > button of phat. I can't remember what I did. It has a Start and End point and is highlighted.

I could adjust it by bringing in the scissors tool and moving the selection to a smaller amount.

Going to the graphic editor in metro and setting the track to phat, I could hear the sample on the piano roll (triggering it) and even with "midi keys" as well.

Phat was put on the aux....I don't know if it helps. I grabbed the VST version from the site.

Didn't read the manual........my eyes couldn't focus well enough for that.

I did manage to get phat into an audio position where it wouldn't shut up (or maybe I didn't wait long enough for it to be quiet) and I ended up deleteing it off the aux and starting again.


Are you not even hearing the slices you're making?
I can't say I'm into samples and slicing or dicing, but from my half hour play, it seems to work reasonably if not fine under Jaguar.


regards
scoot.

[rlwilliams]

Hi, Scoot,

Thanks for your reply.

Scoot said, "I clicked on the button at the top left of the plugin and got a sample installed. Is this where you were talking about having to close a window?"

R- Yes, this is what I was talking about. It doesn't close for me, but I can deal with that.

Scoot said, "With the sample, I could get it playing with metro's transport or with some other setting with the > button of phat. I can't remember what I did. It has a Start and End point and is highlighted."

R- I can't get the sample to play using the > button of phat. This is what seems to be not working for me. What do you mean when you said "get it playing with Metro's transport"? It doesn't work for me from the transport unless I export the midi, then import the midi information into the Graphic Editor in Metro. I too can hear the sample on the piano roll (triggering it) and even with "midi keys".

Scoot said, "I did manage to get phat into an audio position where it wouldn't shut up (or maybe I didn't wait long enough for it to be quiet)"

R- This happens to me also whenever the sliding browser comes out and the "speaker" button is not de-activated.

Scoot said, "Are you not even hearing the slices you're making?"

R- I want to be able to press the "> play preview" button and hear the sample from withing the Phatmatik Pro interface. This is the part that isn't working. I've been following the manual, and this doesn't work.

Jeremy, does it work for you in OS 9?

Thanks, Scoot for your help!

Sincerely,

Ronnie

[Scoot]

My OS9 is almost 5 years old now and metro doesn't run terribly well. I think it's been added and subtracted to, too many times.

Launch metro

pull in phat as a plugin

click on edit in the effects window and it crashes without a dialog error box


It could be because I don't have my midi interface connected at present, but I did tell OMS to use quicktime as the preferred device so maybe my System Folder can't handle the only OS9 app I ever update. hehehe.


scoot.

[Jerm]

Ok. I have taken a look at PPro under OS 9. One reason that OS 9 is obsolete is because it is a hostile environment to programmers. Especially on some machines.

Yes, this is what I was talking about. It doesn't close for me, but I can deal with that.

Yes. The browser works fine. Simply go to the plug-ins window, control-click on Phatmatik-Pro and select 'Let Plug manage window resizing'.

R- I can't get the sample to play using the > button of phat. This is what seems to be not working for me. What do you mean when you said "get it playing with Metro's transport"? It doesn't work for me from the transport unless I export the midi, then import the midi information into the Graphic Editor in Metro. I too can hear the sample on the piano roll (triggering it) and even with "midi keys".

This is a bug in Phatmatik Pro (I believe). It is pretty scary that Art has no way to test it. That is a bad sign.

I want to be able to press the "> play preview" button and hear the sample from withing the Phatmatik Pro interface. This is the part that isn't working. I've been following the manual, and this doesn't work.

This is almost certainly a problem with PPro. You can shift-click to hear the individual slices. Metro does supply all the tempo information that Art needs to make his plug-in work. The other thing is that I am pretty sure that it does work in OS X. I will check later.

Jeremy, does it work for you in OS 9?

Yes. With the exception of PPro's play button.

[Jerm]

Yes. The play button does work under OS X.

[rlwilliams]

Jeremy,

I can't upgrade my computer to OSX. If I did, most of my plug-ins wouldn't work, and I'd have to buy a new audio interface most likely.
I've worked for so long to get this computer where it is, I can't afford anything else. I've written to Bitshift Audio to see what they can help me with.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Ronnie

[Jerm]

Any suggestions?

Yes. I suggest you read all of my posts in this thread. No where do I say that you need to upgrade to OS X. What I did say is that OS 9 is obsolete and what I should have added is that, because of its obsolecense you may have diffilculties getting developers to fix any problems encountered in OS 9.

You should only upgrade to OS X if you want a more reliable computing environment and software that is cutting edge.

Now I am getting quite a bit off topic.

[rlwilliams]

Hi, Jeremy,

I wasn't saying that you suggested that I upgrade to OSX. I was just wondering what you suggested for me, where I am now. I know eventually I will upgrade to system OSX, but just not right now. I'm trying to use what I have to make some music until it can't be used anymore, and I can afford to upgrade.

Here's what Bitshift had to say about the matter, and from what you've said and what they've said, it is what it is, for now, until I upgrade to OSX.

Bitshift says," We no longer support OS 9 -- there will be no bugfixes or updates on this platform. The latest version of pHATmatik PRO is 1.2.1
and it's available on OS X as a free upgrade to all pPRO 1.x users. Whether or not we can test it is immaterial, as even if we found
a bug, we're not longer issuing new versions for OS 9."

Whenever I bought this product, it was advertised to work with OS9.

"It *does* work on OS 9 - in every other host (and for %99.9 of
our customers) If not having play preview in your host is a
show-stopper for you, then I suggest arranging for a refund with
your dealer."

So, I've decided I'll try to use it as is, until I upgrade to OSX, and then it will work out.

Once again, thank you for your time, Jeremy.

Sincerely,

Ronnie

[Scoot]

Apart from the cost of upgrading to OSX, or a new Mac, which plugins are you hanging onto in OS9?

(((An Apple club I used to be in was divided between mac and apple II users. Those happy apple II users always used to say they'd one day get a mac. Most of them being happy where they were, stuck with the apple II's - the upgrade day never came))).

[rlwilliams]

I guess I'm more concerned about the audio interface to the computer. I'm not sure it would be compatible with OSX. I have a Korg 1212 card installed.

And what about the midi interface? I don't know if it would be compatible either, so then I would have to purchase another.

Unless what I have is completely useless, there's no need for me to upgrade right now, even though I'd like one of the new snazzy G5 computers.

Scoot, do you have an upgraded computer, or a new one? If upgraded, what is your current setup?
Thanks for your advice,

Ronnie

[Scoot]

As my profile says a G4 450 with 768MB....so you're going a lot quicker than me.

Then again I can't use metro in 9 without stability problems.... but I can sometimes run it to test it for others like yourself, and I'm not willing to reinstall 9 with a clean install. If OS9 breaks down completely, I will remove it....though golive is quicker in it.

Finger crossed my machine will run tiger and I will jump to that to make things as quick as 9.


scoot.