Sagan Technology Metro

by **sigmasix** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 3:34 pm

i am using metro g4 6.1. upon recall of a previously saved mixer setup (after i have already configured the output ports and tracks and have saved a song) it seems metro is adding channels to my mixer setup. for example i had 10 channels of soft synths configured appropriately and had all levels set nicely but when i reopened the song, metro added 4 other 'built in controller' audio channels which prevents me from adjusting individual levels. i have to manually delete the added channels.
any particular cause for this?

by **Jerm** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 5:46 pm

This should not prevent you from adjusting individual levels. Metro adds these if you do not have any Metro outputs that are audio. You should make sure that your softsynths are outputting through the correct audio output.

by **sigmasix** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:44 am

it appears that when metro adds the audio outputs on the mixer my soft synths only output through them and not the previously configured mixer channels (and yes they show that they are configured to the proper synth port)
is this maybe a bug in the soft synths?.. in particular i have noticed it to be a problem with zebra and the ritmo drum machine.
only after i delete the added audio tracks do i get level control back in the individual mixer channels of the midi soft synth

by **Jerm** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:16 am

I am not sure I understand.

What are your outputs as viewed from the effects window before the mysterious mixer channels appear and after?

There was a bug where in some cases changing the output in the effects window did not take affect but this sounds like something else.

by **sigmasix** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:51 pm

as viewed from the effects window the channels are showing the newly added audio channel for every track that i had already assigned a channel to. until it is deleted, then it switches back to my previously assigned channels. any attempt to click on the effects window will default it to the first mixer channel where it then becomes unassignable (at least through the effects window)
hope this makes sense..

by **Jerm** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 12:51 am

I hate to say this but I think perhaps the problem is a misunderstanding on your part.

The thing is that the output from a softsynth must go to an audio output. Metro is sending your effect output to your audio device whether you have an audio output or not. Metro thinks "well the user is trying to send audio to an output that does not exist" and finds the best match. It is not a good idea to have no audio mixer channels when using audio outputs. You will not have control over levels for one thing. If the output that appears in the effects window is labeled "your soft-synth" then this is also a problem. Metro is not sending audio data to your softsynth it is sending it to the audio output. The softsynth is a MIDI only output device and therefore Metro is sending MIDI to it.

To resolve this situation I suggest you leave the audio outputs and assign them in the effects window to the softsynth output.

If I am completely misunderstaning I apologize.

by **sigmasix** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 9:45 am

so lets see i got this straight
i assign my soft synths to the effect window and in that window i select a built in audio output port and not a madeup mixer channel port and then
assign in the graphic editor window the appropriate soft synth port per track.
i think my problem lied in the fact that when i was 'modifying outputs and busses' i was assigning each individual mixer channel to the configured synths and not to the built in audio.

do i have it right?

by **sigmasix** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 9:50 am

well i thought i had it right.. after i saved the document , closed metro and reopened the document i had three extra built in audio channels in my mixer selection.. it did not effect playback this time. i'm just not sure i'm understanding why this is happening.

by **Jerm** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 10:26 am

Sigma,

If Metro is still adding audio outputs to the mixer unecessarily then this would be a bug. Perhaps you should email me the document for a look?

by **sigmasix** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 9:56 pm

Jerm,
i think i may have found the problem. i reread what you had written. i had been, after configuring my mixer channels, selecting outputs to the mixer channels from the graphic editor window per track and not the effects window box per track.
after configuring my setup this way i have noticed better mixer control and no extra channels popping up.

would this have been the cause all along?

by **Jerm** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 10:25 pm

It could be. I am not really sure what you mean.

by **sigmasix** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 9:45 am

let me explain it in order of how i do a setup:
i add some tracks, 2 for example
i then open the plug in window and add a soft synth on each channel
then i modify outputs and busses and WAS selecting on the outputs on port box: the individual soft synth port on each track and naming the channels, say TEST for example.
i would then go to the grapic editor window and select the port from there which would be TEST1 for track one and TEST2 for track two.

i think i was bypassing something or other.

i NOW select, when modifying outputs and busses, to output on port: built in audio controller.
and keep in the graphic editor window the specific soft synth port per track
and select the specific mixer channel name (TEST1, TEST2) in the effects window. (rather than the graphic editor window)

this is yielding a more stable setup and probably the way you intended for things to work!

by **Jerm** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 12:07 pm

If you want a fader for a soft-synth on a track then you do need to add one (or more) in the modify busses dialog. You can then assign that output to the track and the fader will control the amount of MIDI volume (default - controller 7) sent to the plug-in. Now this is not the recommended way to use a soft-synth unless the soft-synth only accepts data on a single MIDI channel. If the soft-synth accepts data on more than one channel or receives audio it is recommended that you install the soft-synth on an aux buss.

Assuming that the soft-synth is installed on a track, the output from the soft-synth will initially go to whatever audio output the track was assigned to before the plug-in was installed. Afterwards you can change the output assignment in the effects window. There was a bug where this would not work until stop was pressed and then playback was pressed again. This is fixed in 6.1.0.6.

Here is a simplified flow chart for Metro:

In the above picture, the output (instrument/mixer) fader after the effects chain is specified in the effects window.

by **sigmasix** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 9:44 pm

ok, i'll have to absorb all this.
thanks for the great chart!

by **sigmasix** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:17 pm

ok i'm lost..
my soft synth seem to work fine on a regular fader channel and only receive midi signals when the record is enabled for that particular track and beings as i have only recorded on track at a time that works fine.

this aux bus thing seems a whole lot of extra steps. in particular configuring each soft synth to receive only one particular midi channel and then having to switch that channel on my midi controller keyboard every time i want to access that particular soft synth..
and then we come to recording the midi... when i select the aux channel in the graphic editor window i get no record button or midi notes for that matter to record. how do i record notes and such on a soft synth configured to an aux bus channel.. i just get a grid.

i want to be able to set metro up the 'right' way and use it properly.

Sagan Technology Metro

random mixer channels appearing

random mixer channels appearing

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