"The Switch"

[Lightbringerrr]

Hey all! I'm new here and I have some questions that you can hopefully help me with.
First off, I'm currently using a PC with WIN XP( which I have begun to really hate ) and Cakewalk SONAR( which I love ). I went to the Cakewalk site because I remembered that they had one program for the Mac( Metro ), and I wanted to check it out because I've been looking at the new G5 and I'm beginning to develop a serious jones for it.
I'm waiting on some questions regarding compatability in other areas before I decide to make the full-on switch, but what I mainly need to know here is this:
Is the layout of Metro similar to the other Cakewalk stuff in regards to things like patching in FX, inserting a new track on the mixer, Automation, and just in general?
I really( and I cannot stress this enough ), really hate Logic and Cubase. The reason being; Cakewalk was the first Demo I tried where I was able to make music just by clicking around on the screen, and because the layout was L-O-G-I-C-A-L and very user-friendly. Who gives a damn about all the bells and whistles in the world if it takes a Masters Degree just to do the basics???
I would appreciate any and all input! Thanks!

[Scoot]

The best answer I can think of since I have never seen a Cakewalk PC audio program running (just heard the complaints in newsgroups when it wasn't running properly) is........do you have access to any G3 or G4 mac at the moment?

If so download Metro 6 in its full form or SE limited version (4 playable audio tracks at a time) and look to see how similar it is.

It runs for 25 minutes before quitting but in that time you can play with midi and audio files......and if it's enjoyable, it does tempt you awfully to purchase it.

You have unlimited 25 minute sessions......you just can't save anything.
After a few sessions you should get the feel for how powerful and controllable metro can be.

Metro on a G5 would be a VERY slick audio beast!

have fun

scoot.

[Lightbringerrr]

Scooterman,

Greetings! Thank you for replying to my post. I received an e-mail from( I'm guessing ) the President of the Company today( SAGAN ), and he was very helpful and informative. I guess I just won't know until I sit down at a Mac and have a look-see for myself eh? lol!
The thing that I really love about SONAR is that you can just point and click your way through the program, and everything seems to just "fall into place". I'll give you an example; When you bring up the Mixer in SONAR, it's very similar to a desktop Digital Mixer in it's appearance and function. If you want to add a new track, you just right click and the options will come up and you can pick what kind of track you want (Audio / Midi / Buss etc;). Automation is a breeze; you just point your mouse on the slider, right click, and a window with like 30 diffrent colors wil come up, and you just assign each slider( or slider group ) a specific color then you arm the group for automation and then just do your thing while the music plays! And get this; assigning a plug-in is as simple as moving your Mouse over each channels EFX-send, right-clicking, and then following the sub-menu to the plug-in of your choice! I owned Logic Gold for almost Two Weeks before I ever even FOUND the plug-ins!!!
Do you kind of see what I'm getting at? SIMPLICITY! Simplicity in a very powerful program. If you want to delve into the really deep stuff you can and what's really cool is that if you click on something that your not sure of what its function is, you can INSTANTLY get a brief( or detailed ) tutorial on that button/function just by right-clicking! Is that cool or what?!

When I first decided that I would forgo a D.A.W. in favor of PC/Hard-Disk recording, I did a lot of reading/research. I ended up buying Logic Gold because it had the most features and best reviews of all the programs in its class. When I got the program and realized I couldn't navigate it worth a damn, I decided to demo the other companies products to see if there was something out there I could wrap my limited knowledge-base around and make music with. I chose Cakewalk because in terms of function; it just made good sense. I'm hoping that Cakewalks' ways and means were applied to Metro, at least in the sense of being an ergonomic layout that is "dumb guitarist friendly". I wish I could see some scrrenshots of Metro.
Oh well...

Thanks again!
Jason.

[Scoot]

If everything is so easy and simple in Sonar, why change?
You are changing to avoid XP which you hate?

The arguement seems a little silly if sonar is so easy.......or is sonar just a bit of a toy?


scoot.

[Lightbringerrr]

If you had read the posts, you would understand that I DON'T want to change from SONAR. The problem is in fact Windows.
And as far as SONAR being a"toy" is concerned; correct me if I'm wrong, but I DO believe that SONAR did cost quite a bit more than Metro 5. I don't think I'd be spending $300.00+ dollars on sequencing software if I were expecting a "toy".
Just because something is well-designed and well thought out doesn't make it "inferior". In fact; I believe said design would be the hallmark of an excellent product. The problem has nothing to do with SONAR at all, it has to do with the fact that the PC, by it's very nature, is a mish-mash of diffrent companies parts combined with an Operating System that has to take into account thousands of diffrent companies and try to be compatible with them all. Given those parameters, I'm suprised that Microsoft has managed to do as well as it has.
Maybe if Apple had been "on the ball" during the late 80's and through the 90's, then 90% of the computing world wouldn't be in the collective mess that it is in now.

[fastlanephil]

I don't think any product out now is really easy to use because the programs have become so much more powerful. Opcode's Easy Vision was about the closest to something like Macpaint. I've read Logic is the most difficult one to learn and not for the casual user.

[Scoot]

And if you read my post I did write "to avoid XP".

Compare old software with old software though.
When Metro 5 came out Cakewalk hadn't released Sonar!
The PC title was Pro Audio 8 (or something similar) and they really hyped up version 9.
When it came out the cakewalk news groups will full of the PC users complaining why couldn't it be more like metro? That's why I consider the PC side to be inferior. I don't see a lot of mac users having PC envy.
Cakewalk killed off Metro by no longer supporting it.
For about 3 years if you wrote to them about it, you would hear nothing back. They deserve customers leaving them.

XP costs more than OSX. You telling me XP is better?
Deck costs more than Metro but it's midi side of things is non existant.

The best reason to get off XP would be to stop getting hounded by viruses and worms (as my partners XP machine just found out).

Microsoft didn't exactly have very good guidelines when authors went to write software. That is why a keyboard key can do so many different things depending on which program you're in. There is no consistancy there.

Microsoft did licencing damn well and competed in fields to knock out opponents without the resources to fight back.
Look at how quickly netscape lost market share.
There is no netscape operating system so how can you run it without windows, linux or OSX etc.......and since microsoft had the market share, it was just a matter of time before they made it harder for you to find netscape on your hard drive.
I don't think Microsoft bought Virtual PC cause they want to sell a lot of copies to Mac users.

Fastlanephil - EZVision was cool


scoot.

[Lightbringerrr]

Regarding the software, all I will say is this; Cakewalk Sonar absolutely destroys Logic and Cubase in terms of navigation, and no one in the world will tell me diffrent. I owned Logic Gold, and I've demoed every version of Cubase that's come out in the last three years. I sit there at the Computer and think to myself; who the hell writes this stuff?
Regardless of how many features a program has, and how deep you can go with it, if the layout and function isn't at least somewhat intuitive; then what's the point? Manuals should be for troubleshooting, period.
My original inquiry was for the purpose of finding out if Metro had a similar "overall" functionality as the other Cakewalk products. Now, perhaps Cakewalk DID do a complete overhaul with Sonar as compared to Pro Audio 8 or 9; I really don't know. But I know that most companies don't completely "reinvent the wheel" as they progress from one Program to the next( in terms of audio sequencers ).
As for Mac OS X, from what I've seen so far it looks like a series of (Mmm...) "windows", but with pretty little color-coded buttons on them instead of a "line", a "box", and an "X" to close them. My desire to make a possible switch stems from the fact that I like the idea of a completely integrated system that was bulit from the ground-up to be perfectly "in synch" with itself. I will NOT however enjoy the fact that I've spent a lot of money on cool games that I won't be able to play anymore. But hey; I hear Apple has their OWN games! You know, cool stuff like "Age of Empires-type stuff and "The Sims"

[sseaton]

I think it is quite odd that we are having a discussion in this forum about Microsoft and its marketing "skills" and tactics. The originator of this post wants to simply know about the product Metro.

I personally can't tell you how it compares to Sonar, because I don't have a Wintel machine... and many others members probably don't either. I can tell you, however, that Metro is an easy-to-use full-featured MIDI and audio recording app. I would also recommend Metro because of the outstanding support I get from Jeremy Sagan and the many Metro users in these forums.

If anyone else out there has actually USED Sonar, please give this member some feedback. Hey it is good for Metro and Apple if we get a switcher!

Take care,
Sean

[Scoot]

I can tell you, however, that Metro is an easy-to-use full-featured MIDI and audio recording app.

I don't know if I would agree with that, if I were coming from a different app.

You sorta have to know how to set it up and where the particular settings are. This can be a very scary thing for a newbie.......well in any program.


scoot.

[sseaton]

Scooterman,

Metro IS "easy-to-use". I didn't say it was "easy-to-learn". And it is full-featured. I was a "newbie" to Metro just last Spring, and I have learned the program just fine. I must add that the support from this forum has also been very helpful.

[Adrian Delso]

I'm pretty stupid when it comes to DAW and computers and stuff and, although I can lay stuff down in Metro, I don't always quite know how I've managed it!

What I want is a walkthrough idiot's guide, (with stuff like Banks and Programs explained in a Metro context) .i.e:
I want to find some drum samples;
I want to lay down a MIDI pattern or two - either live or in step-time, from a MIDI keyboard or a computer keyboard/mouse, using those samples, or a GM kit or whatever;
I want to do likewise with a bass sound, then any other sound;
I want to edit notes, velocities, volume, tempo, pan and maybe insert FX;
I want to put down some audio - vox, acoustic intruments;
I then want to have all the resulting tracks as audio for editing/balancing, whatever;
I want to mix that lot into a stereo file and master it before saving it as a .wav, .aiff or.mp3 for burning, sending to a collaborator, posting on a website.

I believe it's possible to do most of this in Metro, but I don't know how, with any confidence!

Please, Jerm, are there a couple of sections of the Manual, that I can print out and work through at my own pace, which will get me going, so I can build up my knowledge and confidence?

[Scoot]

How about the John Jones midi tutorial in the downloads section on the website?

After that using the pencil tool and the note lengths can 'lay' down a midi pattern quite easily.

Failing that setting a midi track to record, hitting record in the transport window and playing a midi keyboard would also lay the track down.

[Adrian Delso]

Well, I tried following your advice, Scoot, but then suddenly stumbled across a workround, which solved my particular learning difficulties!

I now record MIDI tracks in FL Studio412 (which I'd forgotten I had) on my new PC and render them as a stereo .wav to a project file, held on a memory stick.

Pop the memory stick into my Mac, import the stereo .wav into Metro and add audio tracks in Metro. Sound quality is outstanding.

Works for me.