Effects send and receive panning

[arenson]

First i never thought I would have made it this far but thanks to Jerm and others I now have things working completely, am recording away (for the first time in 15 years, when i gave up music composition for no good reason)

Ok, once past the technical hurdles, regarding effects sending, I am finding the whole issue of how to handle the pan and other controls a bit resistant to just trial and error.

So say, on track 1 I have a vocal.

The vocal is dead center.
There is also a guitar which is midway to the right.



In AUX 2
EFX 2 FADER POSITION/TRACK FADER POSITION

Let's say REVERB...EFX sends the effect out, right?
So what is the wisdom--EFX fader all the way up and then tracks 1 and 2 guitar adjust for the amount of effect? That is what I have been doing.


EFFECT WINDOW
I also send mostly the wet signal since there is already the dry signal on track 1 anyway. annd again have SEND all the way up..
Is this reasonable.

My music is ballads.. think any folk singer and guitar, with a powerful operatic voice.


Now just like many people use a different engineer for mastering, I find I can't rely on my own ears to determine what sounds right. Trying to understand how all these things inter-relate. So some guidance here would be helpful.

EFFECT pan and Track pan (aux2)
The last question is, there is a pan for the EFX out and the
track itself. I want the reverb on the left for the vocal (remember vocal itself is in the center, but i want the echo-like sound to be on the left)


So now, do i set both the EFX out to the left AND the Track pan?

Intuitively, but not really sure) it seems the effect sounds fuller with the EFX fader in the center and the track fader to the left. Just one too many faders for me to be able to tell.


For the guitar maybe it is less significant since guitar is itself on the right. So maybe reverb in the same general position? Therefore since EFX fader is alreay in the center, just move the guitar track fader to the right...?

Anyone have any thought or experiences with this?

Thank you!

[Scoot]

What is the definition of - the effect sounds fuller?
Does that mean more of it or in both left and right channels not panning?

If you have problems getting the pan correct after you add effects through AUX, maybe you should place a vocal on track 1 and the effect on track 1, a guitar on track 2 and the effect on track 2.

This makes things a lot easier.

[arenson]

Good question. Subjectively it sounds like it is more centered.

But I guess your suggestion is one I am interested in...because it seems that what i am doing with the effect is ALREADY adding to the same track.


You say place the vocals and effect on track 1.
Guitar and effect on track 2.

So the vocal was originally recorded dead center,
The guitar was recored to the right, for example.

Now with the effect, I am (via AUX 2 EFFECT WINDOW) SENDING the effect left,center or right AND adding the effect left, center, or right.

Which is the point of confusion for me. Why both in sending and adding the effect do we have pans?

Am I correct that the effect pan is for sending the effect and the receive pan is for adding the effect back to THAT SAME track.

I guess what i am saying is what is the function of having pan on both EFX send and on the track (in Aux2). I guess the fundamentals are not clear to me. Likewise with volume.


paul

[Scoot]

A pan setting on the EFX Aux 1 middled at 64 would give equal left and right all tracks using it. If you were to put this to say 20 you would always have a left biased to other adjustments.

Personally I would leave it at dead middle and change the AUX 1 fader pan.


I'll use AUDelay as an example as it is easier to hear an outcome than reverb hard over to the left.

Put an audio track on output 1 and AUDelay on AUX 1.
In MAIN have Track1 output fader fully down, leave pan in the middle.

AUX 1 popup AUX all the way up pan in the middle.
The fader for track 1 all the way up pan hard left and above the pan PRE is set.

Hit play and you have a lot of delay (with the delay window dry/wet 100%, feedback 50% etc.).

Tweak the track's pan a little right and hear it move more central.
Set it to the middle now and move the EFX AUX 1 hard left.

Pretty much the same result.....

now move the tracks PAN hard right......what happens.....everything fades out to nothing as the AUX on the fader is picking up no signal as all the signal is over the other side.


confused or cleared up?

[arenson]

Thanks, Scoot!

So leave the EFX in the miiddle might work most of the time....



-->
Put an audio track on output 1 and AUDelay on AUX 1.
In MAIN have Track1 output fader fully down, leave pan in the middle.

<---SO AS TO NOTICE THE EFFECT I SUPPOSE. NORMALLY LEAVE IT UP, RIGHT?


AUX 1 popup AUX all the way up pan in the middle.


The fader for track 1 all the way up pan hard left and above the pan PRE is set.

OH YEAN, THE PRE-POST THING

PRE ALLOWS ME TO HEAR THE SIGNAL WITHOUT THE EFFECT?
WITHOUT HAVING TO TURN OFF THE EFFECT? FOR EASY A-B COMPARISON?



Making sense. Will try it out (not at home now).

What about the faders?

In the MAIN window, I have the fader set nromally about 75 percent for vocal if I have a goo d strong signal. And other faders in relation to it for guitars....



And then in the AUDIO1 or 2 EFFECTS pop ups, confronted again
by volume faders. Would it be reasonable to conclude prettymuch fully up there and then play with the amount in the fader on the tracks for AUX 2 section of the mixer?

Thanks!

[/quote]

[Scoot]

OH YEAN, THE PRE-POST THING

PRE ALLOWS ME TO HEAR THE SIGNAL WITHOUT THE EFFECT?
WITHOUT HAVING TO TURN OFF THE EFFECT? FOR EASY A-B COMPARISON?

I recommend you try the example given will an delay/echo effect.
The answer is NOT what you said above.

These situations pay to test rather than jump to an incorrect assumption.

[arenson]

You are right, sorry. I need to sit down and try it.

I will be back in a few days after testing. Have 2 12-hour work days coming up so will need to wait til after then. Hopefully all will be clear instead of me trying to visualize without yet testing.

Sorry to not have tried first.

paul

[arenson]

Hi Scoot. I was sick with 3 colds in succession but now ok. Finally checked the above and sort of understand why i was setting tio PRE. Just to be able to hear the effects without the inflluence of the main signal.

It seems like what i want to do in general is leave the aux 1 or aux 2 fader panned center and fader up and use the individual track fader and pan to control the effect. Maybe my ears are not that great, but anyway, as you note, with reverb it is not so noticeable, but with delay the effect IS noticeable.

I guess trial and error.


Thanks

paul