"Mixer"?

[MacMaui]

I'm a newbie ("newbie-to-be", actually, as I have bought nothing yet) to home recording. I've been looking at the Mbox by Digidesigns, but I'm a little dissed that they have not provided support for Audio Unit plug-ins. Because of that, I was starting to look more closely at the eMagic products.

I was pleasantly surprised to find out that Metro is available again - I had heard about it from a friend - and that the use of Audio Unit plug-ins is supported - at a very reasonable price.

I read the faq regarding "mixdown" to stereo, but I'm still a little confused. The faq says that Metro cannot mixdown to stereo without a "mixer". What exactly is a "mixer"? Will an audio interface, like the Mbox, M-audio Quattro or other equivalent device (Edirol, etc.), suffice, or do you need some other controller or device (eg a Tascam 428)?

I have an 800Mhz LCD iMac - without the audio input jacks - so having to use a separate audio line in is a problem for me. (I've read about the necessity of a fast HD for multi-track audio recording, so I understand the limitations of the 5400 rpm internal drive in my mac. I'll probably have to go with an external firewire drive.)

Does Metro "support" any particular audio and/or midi interfaces?

Finally, does Metro have the facility to "shift" tracks to adjust for latency? It seems the only affordable (imo) audio interfaces are USB at present. Recording one track at a time would be fine for me, but latency (2nd track onwards) always seems to be a factor with the USB devices.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide regarding these issues.

[Jerm]

I read the faq regarding "mixdown" to stereo, but I'm still a little confused. The faq says that Metro cannot mixdown to stereo without a "mixer". What exactly is a "mixer"? Will an audio interface, like the Mbox, M-audio Quattro or other equivalent device (Edirol, etc.), suffice, or do you need some other controller or device (eg a Tascam 428)?

The only thing that would require a mixer would be if you wanted to mix audio with MIDI. Because the only way to get multiple MIDI tracks input as audio would be through the use of any simple analog or digital mixer. However even this would be possible without a mixer. Although it would be a real pain in the ass. Theoretically, you could connect a MIDI modules output to your audio input and record each track individually.

Metro (SE) does have the facility to MIX AUDIO TRACKS (and synthesizer plug-in tracks) down to a single stereo track (bounce).

I have an 800Mhz LCD iMac - without the audio input jacks - so having to use a separate audio line in is a problem for me. (I've read about the necessity of a fast HD for multi-track audio recording, so I understand the limitations of the 5400 rpm internal drive in my mac. I'll probably have to go with an external firewire drive.)

In order to get any audio in you would therefore need an external audio device. You could get by with a 5400 rpm drive but you would become I/O bound sooner.

Does Metro "support" any particular audio and/or midi interfaces?

I believe there are other topics on this BB addressing this question

Finally, does Metro have the facility to "shift" tracks to adjust for latency? It seems the only affordable (imo) audio interfaces are USB at present. Recording one track at a time would be fine for me, but latency (2nd track onwards) always seems to be a factor with the USB devices.

Yes. In the audio setup advanced dialog. There is also INSERT/DELETE time.

[MacMaui]

Thanks for the quick reply, Jerm. Unfortunately, this newbie-to-be is still not clear on "bouncing" audio an MIDI tracks. The answer to the faq question "How do I "mixdown" several audio and MIDI tracks into one file - to create a CD or MP3 file, for example? Do I need another app to do this?" says that a mixer is needed, so . . .

Maybe I should approach this from a different angle. I basically want to fool around with arrangements using electric and/or acoustic guitars, drums, bass lines and probably some keyboards (electronic). My very brief review of the Metro online manual leads me to believe that Metro has the facility to build a drum track (Or is a separate drum sampling program necessary?), which is great. I assume that the drum track will be a MIDI track, right?

Assume I then create an audio track for rhythm guitar (using some audio interface), a third track for lead guitar and a fourth track using a keyboard via a MIDI interface. So I now have 2 audio tracks and 2 MIDI tracks in the Metro document.

I play with them a bit - time shift, add reverb, adjust volume, overdub, bounce, etc., but eventually end up with 2 "final" audio tracks and 2 "final" MIDI tracks that I now want to "mix" in stereo and convert to an .aiff or .mp3 file that can be archived by burning to CD using iTunes (or whatever).

Can Metro do this without an external mixer? If not, what if I input the keyboard sounds via an audio interface instead of the MIDI interface (again, this assumes that Metro has the facility to do the drums)?

(I ask all this at the risk of sounding incredibly ignorant.)

[Jerm]

My very brief review of the Metro online manual leads me to believe that Metro has the facility to build a drum track (Or is a separate drum sampling program necessary?), which is great. I assume that the drum track will be a MIDI track, right?

Metro will sequence a drum MIDI track or you can input drum audio loops.

...but eventually end up with 2 "final" audio tracks and 2 "final" MIDI tracks that I now want to "mix" in stereo and convert to an .aiff or .mp3 file that can be archived by burning to CD using iTunes (or whatever).

Can Metro do this without an external mixer? If not, what if I input the keyboard sounds via an audio interface instead of the MIDI interface (again, this assumes that Metro has the facility to do the drums)?

It is possible to do this but it will save you many headaches by having a $200 external 4 ( or 8 ) track mixer. The problem is, in order to burn the audio on to CD you need to have the entire MIX in a single stereo audio file. How do we convert MIDI to Audio so that Metro can mix the audio tracks in to a single stereo audio track (file)? The other question is: What MIDI devices will you be using?

If you do not have any MIDI devices then you could simple use the built-in sound font player for MIDI (OS X only) and when you want your final audio, just mix tracks in Metro. (for OS 9, a plug-in like sampletank will do the same thing)

If you have external MIDI devices, you could connect the output of the device to your audio input for each track you want to record in order to convert MIDI to audio.

[fastlanephil]

If you have a good music store in your area staffed by knowledgeable staff(musicians) you might start there and get some direction in what you need. The Behringer Eurorack is a hot 6 track mixer that starts at about $60.00(Chinese labor).

[fastlanephil]

If you have a good music store in your area staffed by knowledgeable staff(musicians) you might start there and get some direction in what you need. The Behringer Eurorack is a hot 6 track mixer that starts at about $60.00(Chinese labor).

[MacMaui]

Phil:
Thanks for the tip. I found the Behringer Eurorack MX602A in a American Musical Supply catalog for $80. Frankly, I was shocked -- err, pleasantly surprised. However, if I understand things correctly, I may not even need that - but it is nevertheless good to know for the future.

Jerm:
I obviously need to do more reading on MIDI, soundfonts and the OSX soundfont player, but I *think* I now understand what you were so patiently trying to tell me.

First, in answer to your question: The only MIDI device I was considering was a portable keyboard that I was (hopefully) going to use for rhythm (drums), bass lines and perhaps some actual keyboard stuff (heh heh). Actually, until I read about the midi drum track that Metro can create a MIDI drum track, I was planning on recording all the keyboard stuff through an audio interface (hence the Mbox) - on separate tracks. Only after I discovered Metro's drum track facility did I even think about mixing MIDI and audio tracks.

Now then, here is what I *think* I understand (please correct me if I'm wrong):

1. Metro can mix the Metro midi drum track with audio tracks because the an external MIDI device is not needed to generate the sound. (I guess the Metro drum track is done by an internal synth/sampler?)

2. If I recorded stuff from the keyboard (a MIDI device) via a MIDI interface, I would have first convert the MIDI data to audio via the MIDI device before I could mix it down with audio tracks (because Metro could not properly convert the MIDI data to audio internally - Metro would not have the keyboards sound files (or whatever you call them) ). To do this, I would have to export the MIDI data to the device, then route it back to an audio track through an audio interface before mixing. An external mixer would simplify the process.

3. It may be possible to use the OSX soundfont player in place of the keyboard I intended to buy. I may be able to use the player to create the bass lines and keyboard voices, with drums straight from Metro.

K. Now, assuming I've got that more or less right, I have a few more questions.

1. Do you have any idea where I can find out more about the OSX soundfont player? I saw the soundfonts listings in your support section and it looks impressive. Is the soundfonts player active in OSX v. 1.1x or only in Jaguar?

2. Is the player kind of like a virtual synth? If so, can you input via a MIDI controller? - (maybe something akin to the oxygen8 but hopefully with a bigger keyboard)? (I'm thinking that maybe I should be looking for a MIDI controller type keyboard rather than a portable thingy). Again, please excuse my ignorance.

(Sigh) It seems the more I learn, the more confused I get.

3. Last one (for now): Can tracks created in Metro SE be exported to Pro Tools and vice versa? The reason I ask is because I'm starting to think that maybe I should just jump on a bandwagon and learn as I go. If I got the Mbox and Pro Tools LE, I'd have a decent audio interface with compatible software. If I then got Metro SE, I could use Metro's Audio Unit and Soundfont compatibility when needed, the Mbox for recording audio, and either one for the final mix (wherever I happened to end up). I guess I might even get to the point of using the Mbox with Metro only - assuming they're compatible. I guess I'd have to upgrade to the full version of Metro, though - for the increased audio tracks. I don't think 4 audio tracks would be enough for me - for example, I would want the ability to make alternative guitar tracks just for the sake of experimentation.

Thanks once again for your patience and assistance.